Thoughts on Judaism

Thursday, July 21, 2005

Grip on Reality

As a follow up on the last post, can you tell the difference between real and fake? This is a summary of how Charedim did on the quiz:

Dinosaurs - fake
Demons - real
heliocentrism - fake
geocentrism - real
evolution - fake since it is only a theory
relativity - real, though it is only a theory
Copenhagen QM - real, though it is only a speculative theory
Carbon dating - fake
oriental medicine - real
pigeon cure for hepatitis - real
fossils - fake
Zoo Torah - fake, fake, fake
dybuks - real
The Golem of Prague - totally real
Frankenstein - fake
x+x=2x - huh? (Sorry, only a theory and unprovable)
homeopathy - real
Besht stories - mostly real
scientific discovery - mostly fake
uranium dating - fake
Sunset - fake (it goes behind the Rakia, it does not set)
Sun warming the water from underneath the Earth - real
astrology - real, but not permitted
vaccines - fake
spontaneous generation - real
laws of physics - fake
Psak halacha dictates reality - real (See Copenhagen QM)
Prayer healing study - real
pi r square - fake (pi r round, kugel r square)
Country of Israel - fake
Country of Russia - real
Country of America - FEH! PTUI!
Talking to the dead tzdikim - real
Talking to the gedolim - never, they talk, we listen
Prophetic dreams - real
Hopes and dreams - fake
Affordable yeshivas - Oh come on, you think we are totally naive?
TV - What does that stand for?
Ayin Hara - real
Kollel - real and eternal
Employment - fake
Army service - fake
Taxes - fake
Rocks on Shabbos - real, muktza
Heter for throwing them at chilonim - very real
Vodka - real
Gin - fake
Lincoln Towncar - Real
Hyundai - fake, never heard of it
Government programs - real
Government - fake
Toyra laws - real
Laws - fake
money - it would make the world go round if the world weren't standing still with everything else going around IT
gilgulim - real
galgalim - real
Independent thought - fake, not possible

18 Comments:

  • "The Golem of Prague - totally real"

    Not totally. For Lubavitchers, the only reall evidence is the Previous Rebbe's excursion to the attic. I don't know about other groups.

    "Sunset - fake (it goes behind the Rakia, it does not set)"

    Question here: the Rambam writes (nay, paskens) in Kiddush Hachodesh that the sun has two orbits, one diurnal and one annual. Both claims (going behind the rakia and diurnal rotation) cannot both be true. So which is it?

    "Heter for throwing them at chilonim - very real"

    Only if the size of the rocks are shiur chazaz ish. :-)

    By Blogger Menuval, at 8:30 PM  

  • brilliant.Now we finally get to the truth.Anyone who disagrees is a KOFER.

    By Blogger daat y, at 10:21 PM  

  • CS

    No problem - One is the orbit of the galgal in the rakia, one is the action of the sun within the galgal.
    (observantastronomer.blogspot.com has a thorough discussion of the geocentrism arguments, from a Chabad professor point of view. I discussed it with him in connection with the discussion on your blog, as I remember.) He even had pictures and diagrams somewhere.

    Also, if the sun warms the Earth from underneath, as the Alter Rebbe paskins in hilchos Mayim shelanu (sif vav), then Chabad holds of the Chachmei goyim anyway, so the whole rakia thing is pas nisht.

    Daat y
    Is kefira real or fake?

    By Blogger Rebeljew, at 7:35 AM  

  • "One is the orbit of the galgal in the rakia, one is the action of the sun within the galgal."

    So are Mercury and Venus (and the moon!!!) below the rakiah?

    By Blogger Menuval, at 8:49 AM  

  • CS

    According to Chasidus in the Tanya, the moon reflects the light of the sun. However, if the rakia model is correct, then the moon is within the rakia and the sun is without at night. Hence this is impossible.

    Further proof that the Baal HaTanya held like the Chachmei Goyim, that the sun goes beneath the Earth, and that this is not compatible with the "behind the rakia" view.

    Also, in the Rambam model, the inner planets can never be farther away from Earth than the sun, since the galgalim do not cross. In the heliocentric model, this happens all the time. But it is clear from the model that the Rambam also held the Chachmei goyim here. He changes the model significantly, showing his belief that the science of the Chachamim was not masoretic.

    I have a question for you offline, too. rebeljew18@yahoo.com, if you get chance.

    By Blogger Rebeljew, at 9:27 AM  

  • "According to Chasidus in the Tanya, the moon reflects the light of the sun."

    I'm not sure if reflect is the right word. I remember learning that the moon gives off light of its own in response to sunlight. I thought this sounded strange, so I verified it with my mashpia. I had not misinterpreted.

    By Blogger Menuval, at 9:57 AM  

  • "But it is clear from the model that the Rambam also held the Chachmei goyim here. He changes the model significantly, showing his belief that the science of the Chachamim was not masoretic"

    No surprises here

    By Blogger Menuval, at 10:00 AM  

  • "I remember learning that the moon gives off light of its own in response to sunlight."

    Same problem. You cannot have the sun on one side and the moon on the other. Nor can the light of the sun come through or we would see it also.

    By Blogger Rebeljew, at 3:20 PM  

  • The Rambam was very down on galgalim crossing through each other. He discusses this in Moreh Nevuchim somewhere, criticizing other astronomers of his era who held otherwise.

    By Blogger The Observer, at 3:22 PM  

  • No wonder you were defending S - you are just as hate-filled and destructive as he is.

    By Anonymous Normal, at 2:05 PM  

  • normal

    I have no bad feelings toward Chabad or the Chabad Rebbe ztl. But I have very bad feelings toward proliferators of nonsense.

    Can you bring an example where I am "hate-filled" or "destructive"?

    By Blogger Rebeljew, at 4:33 PM  

  • REBELJEW,
    Kofer is real.In fact too real.It seems we are all being called kofrim.I suggest a new group be started 'The Orthodox Kofrim Society.'

    By Anonymous daat y, at 8:29 PM  

  • I'm glad to finally have some definitive answers to some very pressing questions, although I once had some very nice kugel that was round, and it had been baked by a very respectable woman. I suppose that under this construct, pi(e) could conceivably be square in the Messianic age.

    Rock on (but not on Shabbos, unless you you go by the heter and there are no fake fossils embedded in said rock).

    By Anonymous Conserva-Girl, at 9:54 AM  

  • B"H
    Shalom uBrocha!
    Dinosaurs - fake
    Supposing dinosaurs were real wouldn't you agree that the current "scientific" assumption they were green is a pure speculation wvwn greater speculation than saying they definatly walked the earth and were not created as part of the old earth (nes nisaion) theory as some claim in order not to contradict the shita of the Ari to the effect that all the worlds before ours that were created and destroyed by Hashem were spiritual worlds Chaim Vital by the way writes that dinasaurs and the like were created in oilam haasia haruchni-spiritual world of action and then Hashem killed them after some "time" still in the oilam haasia ha'ruchni , but they left an imprint in our world ? :-)
    Brocha veHatzlocha!

    Ariel Sokolovsky
    Chabad Videos page
    Chabad Lubavitch Travel Service blog
    Geula Investment Trust .com blog
    Moshiach TV blog
    Long Live our Master our Teacher and our Rebbe King Moshiach Forever and Ever!

    By Blogger Rabbi Ariel Sokolovsky, at 8:34 AM  

  • There is no scientific reason to believe that dino footprints were created by anything other than dino feet. Granted that they might have been created by fairies and gnomes with contrived footprint making devices, but Occam dictates the obvious answer.

    Dino bones might also be fairy contrivances.

    However, I would rather find the teretz in the Torah than to try and rightr off obvious evidence.

    The Rambam in MN, uses the fact that Earth is spherical as a proof that cannot be denied, even though Torah and Gemorra seem to say otherwise. We could go Gossean there (G-d just makes us think that the Earth is round to test us), or nishtaneh Hateva (the Earth used to be flat), or rejectionist (there is no proof that the Earth is not flat). However, the Rambam clearly rejects all of these, in saying that the matter is proven and only a fool would reject it. Why?

    By Blogger Rebeljew, at 4:30 PM  

  • There is no scientific reason to believe that dino footprints were created by anything other than dino feet. Granted that they might have been created by fairies and gnomes with contrived footprint making devices, but Occam dictates the obvious answer.

    Dino bones might also be fairy contrivances.

    However, I would rather find the teretz in the Torah than to try and rightr off obvious evidence.

    The Rambam in MN, uses the fact that Earth is spherical as a proof that cannot be denied, even though Torah and Gemorra seem to say otherwise. We could go Gossean there (G-d just makes us think that the Earth is round to test us), or nishtaneh Hateva (the Earth used to be flat), or rejectionist (there is no proof that the Earth is not flat). However, the Rambam clearly rejects all of these, in saying that the matter is proven and only a fool would reject it. Why?

    By Blogger Rebeljew, at 4:30 PM  

  • This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    By Blogger Rebeljew, at 4:30 PM  

  • Interesting post you got here. It would be great to read something more concerning this matter. Thanks for posting this information.
    Joan Stepsen
    Wise geek

    By Blogger 123 123, at 9:35 AM  

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